Rick: It’s that, it’s the joy of having metal on bone that I think brings us all together in a shared human experience. That’s awesome. So Tara, I’m so excited to have you here today to talk about vertical development. I have to admit that before I got to see you speak on it at the Brandon Hall conference, I didn’t completely understand what it was. So for those that are probably wiser than me, but still have big questions, I’m wondering if you could give us a high level overview of what precisely is vertical development.
Tara: Sure, I’d be happy to. It’s often a, a term that causes a bit of confusion and if we think about it by way of human development, in the past, we spent a lot of time studying how children develop. And in the 1960s people started asking, do we still develop as adults? And if so, what does that look like?
So the best way I can describe it is that oftentimes we’re really clear on what horizontal development is. That’s adding new skills, learning new tools, things that we can use to do things better, faster, differently, etc. And vertical development is more about mindsets, values, wisdom, how we got to be who we are today.
One of the easiest ways to explain it is to think about horizontal development being more like if we’re adding apps to our phone: new functionality, things that our phone can do for us. And yet sometimes we hit a point where the phone’s moving really slowly, maybe not doing the things that we want it to do. And so vertical development is a lot more like upgrading that operating system.
Rick: Cool. So if I’m tracking with you here, what you’re really saying is that horizontal development is my ability to improve the way that I do different kinds of things. Vertical development is the way that I do things, no matter what I’m doing.
Tara: Yeah. It’s about interpreting and gaining insights about yourself, about others, and about the world at large. It’s really about this ability to invite new perspectives, and really it’s more of a maturity model, if we want to think about it that way.
Rick: Cool. So, I know you are well versed in the research on this topic. I’m wondering if you could break it down for us a little bit further.
Tara: Sure. So, this has been studied for quite some time. It has its roots in adult developmental psychology and there are a variety of models out there ranging from thinking about it in four stages of development, all the way up through nine stages of development. And the easiest way to think about it is just to focus maybe on these five key developmental stages.
The first one, if you will, is something I think we’re all familiar with. It’s often referred to as the diplomat. In this stage, we’re really trying to figure out what the lay of the land is. We are looking to fit in, we’re looking to conform to some norms. Oftentimes you’ll see this or can think about it in your own experience from when you might have started a new job or been introduced to a new group of people. So that’s the first stage.
The second stage is moving more into this space of trying to perfect our knowledge, trying to stick with procedures, trying to use that as a way to exercise control on the world around us and really values like deep expertise. We call this stage, in fact, expert.
Rick: That’s really interesting to me. And as I think about that on the surface, it makes a lot of sense to me. But on the other hand, I’m curious as to how much those are kind of personality traits as opposed to development stages. So in other words, those who know me know that I’ve probably never been one to be the diplomat and to worry so much about how do I fit in and tend to more be the one that, that looks to be different. And so I’m curious about when I’m thinking about vertical development, how much of it is personality versus maturity.
Tara: Great question. This tends to lend itself back to your ways of viewing the world. So there are elements or opportunities for everyone’s differences in personality to shine. This is really having to do with how your brain interprets things. And so, maybe not consciously, but at some point in your reality, chances are pretty high that even if you didn’t act on it, you experienced some self talk in your brain about, hmm, what should I be doing in this situation, in this environment, with this particular set of people, etc.
Rick: Makes sense. From that expert level, I’m curious, what does that mean on the continuum of, I’m trying to be an expert and get it all right and do it all right, to I’m trying to have a broader understanding of how things work, whether I’m doing it or somebody else on the team is doing it.
Tara: So in the expert stage, the focus is on a personal deep commitment to excellence, to getting things right. And to the point of, oftentimes people in this stage are thinking things like, there’s only one right way to do this. And I know how to do it, I’m the one that holds all of the knowledge and the wisdom.
And so it really is maybe even an aversion to the idea of risk taking that I am going to build this sphere of influence, this expertise, etc. And that’s what I’m using to define my place in the world.
Rick: So it is on some level, a function of risk avoidance.
Tara: Yeah, and if we look at it on the positives, it’s this deep desire to be seen as the best at whatever it is that we’re doing.
So the next one is, again, one of the common terms coined is achiever. And this particular stage really focuses on results, effectiveness, success within whatever system that you’re in. So very goal oriented. Probably has a little broader ability to include others. So maybe as a team, you’re trying to achieve something and therefore effectiveness is seemingly prioritized over a lot of other things.
Rick: Makes sense to me.
Tara: What’s interesting, Rick, is that if we look at these first three stages: diplomat, expert, and achiever, research specifically by Suzanne Cook Reuter suggests that 80 percent of adults sit in the diplomat, expert or achiever space. And specifically, most adults within the working world are in that expert or achiever stage.
Rick: And I’m curious, as I think about your analogy earlier with the iPhone and the iOS upgrade, as I reflect on this just a little bit, I would think I might show up differently depending on my comfort with the topic.
So maybe I’m still stuck in a horizontal world, but I’m just kind of thinking about if something has to do with sales and marketing, I’m going to tend to be a little bit more of an expert and a little bit more of achiever in the way that I approach those kinds of situations. But if somebody wants to sit down and have a finance conversation with me, I’m going to be trying more to fit in and get along than I am going to be like, Oh no, it’s over here and we’re all going to go chase it.
Tara: Spot on Rick. This is not a linear progression. We might find ourselves in a variety of these spaces given the context of what’s going on with us, for us, and how we’re feeling about it. So absolutely, the example that you shared is 100 percent spot on. In certain contexts, I may be in a different stage or I might be exhibiting different behaviors or different ways of thinking based off of that particular situation.
Rick: Got it. What comes after that achiever level?
Tara: So the last two stages that I’ll share with you really lean into this kind of post-conventional space. And the first of those or the fourth of our overall conversation here, is often referred to as the individualist. More popularly, it’s a thing stage where we talk about redefining. And what that means is we’re leaning into a space of being curious, reflective, there’s a willingness to push back on maybe previous approaches or our current mindsets. And it’s really focused on being and feeling more so than doing and achieving, thus being a pretty big break, between the achiever stage and this individual stage.
And then finally, the last one we’ll talk about is the strategist, which also is maybe a little bit easier to think about as the stage where we’re spending time in a transforming state. It’s “both/and thinking”, it’s autonomous, it’s being inclusive of others and not only inviting those different perspectives, but being willing to act on them, being really comfortable in complexity, recognizing that there may not be one right answer. There may be conflicting priorities. There may be differences that we need to sit with.
Rick: This is actually hitting me pretty hard as I think about some of the leaders that I’ve been around in my life might very much think of themselves as a strategist. However, their behavior, especially under pressure shows up so much more as an expert or an achiever. Is that a thing that happens?
Tara: So Rick, a lot of times, there can be a disconnect between where people see themselves and what the people around them are experiencing. And I think specifically because, if I’m looking at those first couple of levels, it’s almost like we’re a bit on autopilot because of our focus around either conforming to or succeeding in an external set of norms.
And so, absolutely it could be possible that someone thinks they’re in this space of being willing to invite others in, being willing to sit in this polarity, etc. And what others are experiencing of them is very different.
And that leads us back to the idea of this type of development being rooted in awareness and effort. Getting curious about how we show up, what assumptions, beliefs, or values are driving our behavior and shaping our view of ourselves, others, and the world around us. And having a willingness to lean in with humility and vulnerability is key and is easier said than done.
The opportunity often presents itself when our ways of being and doing that have always worked for us are no longer working or working the way they used to. So, if we’re experiencing frustration, exhaustion, maybe a little bit of burnout, it offers us a chance to take a breath, look within and think, what am I noticing about myself and where I might want to shift?
Rick: Yeah, and I think that’s gosh, that’s one of the most unfortunate things right when I think I’m doing the right thing I’ve got the right aspirations, but I show up quite differently to the people who potentially need me the most.
So Tara, let’s say I am aware and I see these opportunities to potentially shift, but I don’t necessarily, or I’m not currently in a position in my organization to drive the change myself to, to have the infrastructure I need. What do I do to potentially take on this concept and be a better leader
Tara: There are lots of options available. Top of my list would be hiring a coach. And if you wanted to dive deeper on your own, there are plenty of books out there, assessments available, even something like a free assessment to explore your values and raise some of that awareness. And since it is about raising awareness, another option would be – although it can be risky – to ask others for feedback.
It might spark your curiosity or even reveal a blind spot. You can also start a practice of journaling in service of raising that awareness of what you’re feeling and thinking and what’s behind it. Even a few minutes a day and over time will help you notice some patterns, what are you noticing about how you act, and react with others. And that enables you to create the capacity to navigate the increasing complexity, ambiguity, and constant change that’s our reality today, both as a human being and as a leader.
Rick: I know you’ve done great work with many of our clients at scale in this area, but when you present it like that, there’s also a lot of I can do as an individual, which always makes me happy when we have these kinds of conversations, because at its core, what I’m really starting to get from you more is that vertical development very much is about my honest ability to see how I show up in the world.
There’s a lot to take in. We’re going to have to have you back for another show and dig even deeper, cause I think that this is really important stuff that frankly we could all benefit from. So, thanks so much for joining me today.
Tara: Very welcome, Rick. And thank you. You know how near and dear this topic is for me, and I’d be happy to join you again, and continue our conversation.
Rick: Thanks for joining me today. It’s always a pleasure to bring to you our Fearless Thinkers. If you’d like to stay up to date, please subscribe. Bios for our guest and links to relevant content are always listed in the show notes. If you’d like to get in touch, please visit us at BTS.com, and thanks so much for listening!
