This is why your best people are quietly disengaging

Rick: So Steph, I’m curious, it’s been too long. What’s going on in your world?

Steph: Well, we’re just about to head into school holidays out here. So, um, everyone’s enjoying a little bit of an autumnal break.

Rick: Going into a little bit of a holiday, I am sure is nice to have on the horizon.

How about you, Abi?

Abi: Very similarly, Rick. So, heading into, um, holiday next week, my mom is over visiting from the. So, her first time seeing my new house, and she’s out here for three weeks.

Rick: Oh, wow. That’s amazing. I’m sure you guys will have a blast. Well, I guess we should probably jump right into it. I am so excited to share with our audience a little bit about the research you’ve done and what you found could actually move the needle for talent development organizations out there.

I guess probably the best place to start is just an overall summary of what you’ve learned.

Steph: Absolutely. Well, we were really excited to stop and pause at the end of last year and do a little bit of reflection of what was, and as we came into this year, think about what could be what is and we found that there were two principle trends.

One is in the area of trust and power. With employees in the space of your people strategy and, and how the felt experience is for people in their organizations. And the second area that we found fascinating that emerged from the work we’re doing and the research was around human sustainability. So how we create value for people and go well beyond the realms of things like wellbeing.

Abi was such a key part of this work, so I’m really keen to, to get her to expand on some of these ideas because there’s some really interesting things that she’s been sparring with me on around this and with many of our clients actually, right, Abi?

Abi: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. And it’s interesting.

So Rick, when we looked at the research, what you know are other companies reporting as the trends for 2025? There could have been 20 of them, but we boiled it down to two that we see as really key and prevalent for our clients. Trusting power and human sustainability.

Rick: Yeah, the whole concept of trust is such.

A challenge I would think for organizations, especially right now where things are volatile and so many of us as leaders don’t even trust our own judgment. So how are we supposed to trust our organizations? So please kind of go a little deeper into that trust and power category.

Abi: Yes. In terms of trust, Rick, and you said, how do we trust our organizations?

It was interesting to see that statistics on trust. During COVID Trust was higher in organizations than it’s now. So, we’re talking about figures of, you know, around 80% during the pandemic, down to 69% now of how many employees trust their employer. And it’s really interesting, but also, you know, in a sense, really heartbreaking that during the pandemic, during COVID.

We tapped into being human, um, and the Corning each other, and, you know, all of the things that we did there really enhanced trust between the employee and the employer. And I think it was a two-way thing. You know, people were trusted to work from home and then that trust was returned. But you can see, you know, why haven’t we been able to maintain that?

What, what has dropped off since, since COVID? And interestingly, Rick, another just amazing statistic is that 82% of employees do not trust their manager to tell the truth. Yeah, there’s some pretty shocking statistics out there

Rick: that’s very, very surprising actually.

Abi: Well, as we’ve seen speaking to organizations, you know, a lot of them are not surprised by those numbers at all.

Steph: Perhaps that’s the most surprising thing of all. I think people understand that the ideas around trust and power, it feels dislodged right now since COVID, there are a lot of policies and approaches within the human capital area that, um, people are pulling back on. You know, people have made big lifestyle choices based on what they believe to be the agreement between them and their employer.

And so, it’s causing a lot of people, I think, to really question. What did I sign up for and did I sign up for this? And is this sustainable and, and so on. And of course, with the advent of ai, there was also some interesting stats where 50% of people actually trust AI more than an HR professional. So that’s a phenomenal statistic when we think about what’s coming and how.

Disrupted things are, but also how does that feel for people and what’s it like? So, there’s a lot of questions about authority and decision makers being trusted and that plays through into the talent strategies that organizations therefore adopt and some of the assumptions perhaps, that are playing into those talent strategies.

Rick: So, I want to just very quickly understand a little bit more about that last one that you threw out to me around. People trusting AI potentially more than they trust their manager ’cause on some level, as a leader, I tend to tell people, especially those who are further down in my organization, if you never tell me I’m wrong, you’re either lying or not paying attention.

So maybe it’s because people are like, yeah. She’s gonna sugarcoat it for me, or he’s just going to avoid conflict. Is that why they trust AI O? Is there something else underneath that that you found? I.

Steph: Yeah, I mean, I should clarify, they were talking specifically in that 50% stat about HR professionals. So, I think it’s speaking to our HR professionals to say, what’s the story?

I don’t think it’s the practitioners themselves, but I think we’ve been kind of automating and looking for efficiencies within HR functions for decades, right? So, it becomes less and less about the human being who supports you and more about the technology that enables you and the self-service options and things like that.

So, I think that’s simply a reflection of. Perhaps how the industry has changed rather than the practitioners themselves. But it is definitely that this idea of trust and power is playing straight into some of the talent strategies and causing some questions, I think to be asked about talent strategies and approaches.

Rick: And as it kind of relates to that one level, I guess I’d like to go deeper back to the whole conversation around how. People were trusting their employees more, uh, during and shortly after COVID than today. You know, a conversation that I hear quite frequently is, hey, we had to pivot towards our employee wellbeing first and foremost, and now we’ve gotta return to a.

Culture of accountability or something like that. And so, is what’s driving some of this challenge, people potentially going too far one way and then immediately trying to press the reset button and go too far the other way? Or is there something else here?

Abi: Hmm. Yeah. And I think it’s so interesting. I mean, you know, coming back from COVID.

With organizations encouraging people back into the office. There were organizations in Australia who were monitoring key cards and how often they were being tapped each week, but they didn’t tell employees that, so they didn’t know they were being monitored until they got a phone call. I. Saying, you know, you’re not doing enough days in the office.

And I think it’s just those small things right around, you know, that transparency of what is being measured and monitored and why. Most importantly, it was interesting just last week, right when we were doing this session with a client in a workshop format on the talent trends, and again, we were talking about trust.

And suddenly the moment that the penny dropped to this client when they said, oh, do you know what, we’ve been monitoring security cards because we need to understand how much office space we need for the future. And that’s the only reason why, but we didn’t tell people that. So, you know, we have kind of been secretly monitoring them in a big brother mode, and sometimes the intent, you know it is totally, totally fine, but it’s just not communicated to employees.

Equally, I think, you know, linking to that when we talk about transparency, um, we have a lot of conversations with clients around succession planning and identifying talent, identifying potential. And we are in this movement at the moment where people sort of know that that needs to become more transparent.

But again, it’s not there yet. So again, just an example of, you know, transparency and, and lack of trust in talent processes. Um, now I might be sat next to my colleague who’s going on 12 leadership courses a year. Maybe I’m going on none. We haven’t been told whether we’re high potential or not, but we could probably kind of work it out.

Rick: You know, even going to Texas Public Schools, I can do that math. Yeah. So, it, it is kind of that rule number one, don’t be creepy. We’re okay with social media being creepy, but we’re not okay with our employers being creepy. So that I can see why that transparency really, really matters to people and, and especially, you know, in those high potential, it’s like, hey, why is the rest of my peer group going to lunch with the founder and I’m answering the phones weather gone?

You know, those kinds of things.

Steph: The whole up the organization as well, right? The top of the organization with, with a client. End of last year, wasn’t it, Abi? And, you know, they were talking about this sort of disappointment and, um, frustration at the fact that, you know, they have, I primarily focused their job for the last five years on succession at the C-suite, the very top of the organization and, and next tier below.

But for some reason, when it comes to the actual replacements they were making at the end of last year, there’s still this sense that. Because it was internally developed, it’s not a good enough succession plan. And this sort of hunch that, that they weren’t quite the right people on the plan. And if we take it to a headhunter externally, oh, then it’s somehow more valid.

And the internal hires. That they’ve been building up towards that really didn’t get their day in the sun. And so yeah, there is a reality there that sort of says, how serious are we when we talk about trusting our internal talent processes when we talk about succession? And are our executives really trusting the process and putting it on the line.

Rick: It is interesting for, uh, three consultants to be sitting here talking about how people need to trust their own internal facts and data and people. Perhaps with an outside view, but I know that that’s also part of our own core beliefs that, uh, you know, the wisdom lives in the organization.

Steph: Totally and you know, Rick, like I had a career, before BTS inside organizations, so I’m a huge proponent to organizations feeling.

Empowered and having the intelligence be in the organization knocked by externals. And I think that that is so important to give people the space to examine internal and external mindsets that might be holding back the processes that they’re trying to drive and the vision they have for their people.

Rick: So, what else should we be thinking about when it comes to this trust and power trend? To ensure that, that we’re staying ahead and that we’re not in the case of the client that you spoke about earlier, even by mistake, compromising the trust of our teams.

Abi: Mm. Yeah. Great question. I think that’s a couple of pieces.

I think the first is, you know, when we look at a definition of talent and potential in an organization and the requirements for leadership roles, but both now and in the future, it’s okay to be transparent about that. It’s okay to tell and share with people what it takes in that organization. It’s okay to measure that in an objective way so that it is not just a subjective view of a leader around a person, you know, and whether they’re potential or not, because in measuring it, then everyone is on an equal playing field in terms of whether they might be deemed to be high potential or not.

And critically, if you’re transparent about it, you’re assessing it. It’s a two-way process. So that individual also needs to decide, do they want to be in the talent and succession plans of that organization? Is it the right point in their life, both personally and professionally? Does it align to their values?

Do they have the aspirations to do the work for what it’s gonna take to get there? Because again, we hear a lot of stories of these, the secret identification of potential and talent. Perhaps those individuals don’t want to go forward in the organization. They might wanna stay there. They might want to lateral, move into a different role, but maybe they don’t want that progression through to leadership.

And finally, Rick, it’s okay if talent changes. You know, there is a fear that if I tell somebody that they are potential or talent. What happens in a year’s time if they’re not, and again, maybe that’s okay, but it’s about transparency. Um, it’s about having the conversation, it’s about using the criteria and the assessment to just have a conversation with that individual around whether they are a fit and whether they continue to be, and then how the organizations can support them either way.

Steph: And I just add one final point on this whole thing, and you’ll see as we keep talking about the second trend, it kind of comes through that the very thing that is creating the disruption or we think is the problem, is also the solution. So, you know, the thing is, if we can create. A trusting organization, then it sort of begets trust, if you like.

And we know that the irony is all these, like we’ve talked about, the initiatives of having people come into the office, et cetera, but it is actually the freedom that they’re given that builds the trust. It is actually that freedom that. Builds the productivity. We know that trust in organizations is the strongest variable, influencing how energized people feel at work, their sense of thriving and their intent to stay.

It’s as simple as that. So, you know, I think we just need to make sure that it’s very clear to policy makers, to executives and people influencing the broader strategies within your people organization that. It is so much at the heart of this, and that means sharing power with employees

Rick: That’s great. Thank you for the clarity there ’cause I, I feel like those are. The kinds of things that we as leaders can actually impact within our own teams and drive our organizations towards shifting over time. Thanks for joining me today. It’s always a pleasure to bring to you our Fearless Thinkers. If you’d like to stay up to date, please subscribe.

Bios for our guest and links to relevant content are always listed in the show notes. If you’d like to get in touch, please visit us at bts.com and thanks so much for listening.